Now that I will no longer be attending class, we will need to finish our Stranger Discussion online.
HERE ARE THE GUIDELINES:
1. You must post (substantively) a total of FOUR times, worth 5 points each.
2. Posts will be graded on the SUBSTANTIVE nature of the response (be sure to include supporting examples from the text) and adherence to the posting guidelines provided here.
3. It is preferred that you DO NOT POST TWICE IN A ROW...... (As in, you've waited till the last minute and now must post everything all at once. This isn't in the proper spirit of the assignment:) )
4. AT LEAST ONE (preferably two) of your postings MUST BE IN RESPONSE TO THE COMMENTS OF SOMEONE ELSE.
5. You must answer/respond to at least TWO of the questions provided below.
6. DUE DATES:
*THE FIRST POST IS DUE BY WEDNESDAY, MARCH 18 BY 7:40 A.M.
*THE SECOND POST IS DUE BY THURSDAY, MARCH 19 BY 7:40 A.M.
*THE FINAL TWO POSTS ARE DUE BY FRIDAY MARCH 20 BY 7:40 A.M.
*3 BONUS POINTS TO ANYONE WHO MAKES THEIR FIRST POST BY TUESDAY, MARCH 19 BY 7:40 A.M. Please feel free to begin posting at any time. No need to wait until the due dates.
QUESTIONS
The Stranger questions part II (Page numbers may vary according to the publication you have).
1. Explain the title of the novel. Why is this the title, and where do we see evidence of this in the novel?
2. Explain Meursault’s statement “I realized then that a man who had lived only one day could easily live for a hundred years in prison.”(79).
3. Describe Meursault’s trial. What did you find significant or noteworthy about it? What absurdities exist during the trial and how could they be a metaphor for life?
4. Explain Mersault’s statement “it doesn’t much matter whether you die at thirty or seventy, since in either case other men and women will naturally go on living—and for thousands of years.” Do you agree with his attitude towards life and death? Explain why or why not.
5. The chaplain asks Meursault “And do you really live with the thought that when you die, you die, and nothing remains.” Meursault replies “yes.” How might such a belief (as opposed to a belief in some kind of life after death) alter the behavior and decisions of a person, if at all?
6. What other aspects of the novel stand out to you? What else do you find "discussion-worthy?"
48 comments:
The title of Arthur Camus' novel, The Stranger is very significant to the work. Throughout the whole novel, Mersault fails to connect with society. He doesn't follow many societal rules. For example, he doesn't show any remorse for his mothers death, and he is willing to marry Marie even though they only knew each other for a few weeks. Therefore, Mersault is a stranger in his own society.
Camus chooses "the stranger" as the title not only to show Mersault's conflicting view of life, but his as well. Camus believes in the philosophy that human life has no redeeming meaning or purpose. Many people believe in some kind of higher power, and those who do not can be seen as an outsider in society. Maybe Arthur Camus wrote "The Stranger" to give others a bigger perspective on people who do not follow societal rules. Any thoughts on this?
Rachel, I like your theory about Camus' intentions of writing the novel. In our classroom discussion, we talked about different types of common morals that society lives by; some people choose to live by the structure of a church other people determine ethics a different way. The Stranger seems like it could be an example of someone who did not find that structure and deviates from society. Great perspective.
If aperson believes that there is nothing after life on earth, they might not see the point in doing anything productive with their life. People see faith as a means of something to look forward to and to honor with their time spent on earth; those that don't see that might just see life as passing time. If a person believes that there's nothing after death, all the decisions they make during their lifetime are meaningless and driven by nothing. Fatih, i feel makes people ambitious.
In response to question 2:
When Mersault is in prison, the major thing that keeps his attention when he's in his cell is remebering the items in his room. He remembers each item in great detail, and he does this over and over again to pass the time. He claims that it keeps him from being bored and considers it an advantage to prison life. One of the themes in The Stranger is the importance of the physical world as opposed to a higher power. Mersault's consistant counting of his material objects show his inability or lack of desire to look past the physical world and seek help or give attention to a higher power.
I agree with Rachel regarding the title, The Stranger. On page 91 (in my book), the prosecutor is talking about Mersault's behavior when his mother died: "...they will conclude that a stranger may offer a cup of coffee, but...a son should have refused it." The things he did were not things most people in society would do, which goes back to what Rachel said about being a stranger in his own society.
When Mersault is in prison, he slowly adapts to life as a "convicted criminal".He believes that anyone can adapt to any situation after a period of time. When Mersault says “I realized then that a man who had lived only one day could easily live for a hundred years in prison,” he is talking about all of the memories everyone has stored in their mind that no one realizes.
During his time in his cell, Mersault fills his thoughts with memories of his past life as a free man. I agree with Lauren in which most of his memories center around the physical elements in his life. He memorized the different physical aspects to his room, he missed his physical relationship with Marie, and he missed the feel of walking on the beach. The importance of the physical world is also seen when Mersault kills the Arab due to the hotness of the sun.
like the comments/ responses so far. Just a couple of thoughts:
Rachel said that "Camus believes in the philosophy that human life has no redeeming meaning or purpose." Actually, he believes that humans must make their own meaning out of life's events rather than look to a higher power to prescribe meaning, which is why Camus says Sysiphus must be happy. He finds his own happiness in the work of his life.
This (Camus' belief or perspective) is an interesting point to bring up. Is his belief what makes him "The Stranger"?
I also find Tamara's comments interesting about people living a life without religious faith and that their decisions are driven by nothing and without meaning. What do others think about this? I would imagine some would agree and others would not.
I have enjoyed all of the responses so far. I'm interested to see what the rest of you have to say.
I think Mersault is 'The Stranger' because he is amoral and detached. While characters like Raymond may be immoral, no one else in the story is without morals. Also, every other character expresses emotional attachment (like Marie's love toward Mersault, Salamano's feelings toward his dog, or even the chaplain's frustration toward Mersault). Until the end of the novel, Mersault expresses no emotion. Because he is amoral and detached and no one else in the story is, he is a stranger to them and on a broader scope, he is a stranger to orthodox society.
In Meursault's trial, it seemed that everyone focused more on his lack of emotion than they did analyzing the murder. His reaction to his mother's death including not crying, smoking a cigarette, and having an affair with Marie seemed to be brought up a lot, and it did not connect to the murder at all. All it did was try to make Meursault look like a bad guy and that he should be given the death penalty. One thing I found noteworthy was that when Meursault told the court why he killed the Arab (because the sun on the beach bothered Meursault) no one took him seriously even though that was the real truth.
Trials are absurd, because other people are speaking for you. It is your fate that is getting decided, but yet, you have no control over anything that happens. Meursault witnesses this first hand, as his lawyer does not let him talk very much throughout the whole trial. Also, the whole concept of being put in a room where people debate over your personality and the way you live you life, and ultimately judge you seems absurd.
Continuing what Rachel just said...I think the courtroom is a symbol for all of society. The way the prosecutor was spewing facts at his trial about the way he responded to his mother's death and his friendship with Raymond is similar to the way society tends to judge that kind of behavior. Those things had nothing to do with the murder, but he was still judged for them.
In response to number two, Mersualt talks about how all of the days in prison run together, because you can never tell how long you have been there. He said he was surprised to hear he had been there for five months at one point. So in prison i take it, time is really not important.
Commenting on question #4
I personally don't believe in his attitude towards life and death. I think that it does matter when you die. He seems as though he believes he cannot make an impact on the world, but if everyone thought that way then what would our world be like today. There will be people that care about you and will be effected by your death, but he doesn't seem to believe it.
In response to Question 2
I agree with what Ashley said about time not being important while you're in prison. Not only is it not important to keep track of, it's also hard to do. Everything you do in prison is micromanaged to the minutes by the people in charge. I think this sort of lifestyle could suit Mersault pretty well. He never really objects to being told what to do. He just kind of goes with the flow.
In Response to question 5:
I think that the thought of no after life can affect you greatly It can make life seem easier to view in a negative way. Its difficult to even think about letting go of the concept of religion because what if we learned that there is no after life? The though of nothingness is scary and makes the value of human life seem insignificant. No one wants to feel that everything is nothing. But if Mersault truly feels this way then it would explain his apathy and his negativity.
In Mersaults trial the defense does not really bring up evidence against Mersault, they just accuse him of doing certain things, that the avderage person would find absurd. They accuse Mersault of not crying at his moms funeral, smoking at he vigil, and making love the same night of her funeral with a woman. I think it is absurd that they use these things as evidence against him. I think the whole trial turns out to be nothing but a way for people hate Mersault for being different.
Mersault's statement, “it doesn’t much matter whether you die at thirty or seventy, since in either case other men and women will naturally go on living—and for thousands of years.”, means that the only certain thing in life is the inevitability of death, and, because all humans will eventually meet death, all lives are all equally meaningless. Mersault slowly realizes this, but especially after his talk with the chaplain. He realizes that it does not matter whether he dies by execution or lives to die a natural death at an old age.This allows Mersault to be happy, he puts aside his worries about freedom or appeal. He is just going to let it happen because eventually it would happen anyway.
I don't agree with the meaningless of the universe thing but i do agree that when one knows the exact time and place of their death and know that there is nothing to stop it, the knowing of that inevitability would be a relief. One could live their life as free as they want because they know that nothing they do until the time that they die will matter. Besides if one lived safely their whole lives it would put in them a false sense that death was avoidable. If one knows when they are going to die they can put these false hopes aside and live in peace until the time of their inevitable death.
The title the Stranger written by Arthur Camus definately reflects to the work as a whole. Through the book Mersault always seems distant and not there, it is almost like he his not fully connected to world and the society that he himself lives in. He seems very much self- absorbed, he shows this expecially at his mothers funeral not really showing any type of remorse or respect, and when it comes to his relationship with his girlfriend Marie, its all about him he wants to do what he feels like doing, for example he wants to marry her just after a few weeks of really getting to know her.
I think the reason why Arthur Camus chose the Stranger as the title is not only to show Mersault's situation to society around him but to kind of hint to people about his own. He believes that we has humans don't really have any other meaning besides what we do on earth while were alive, meaning he doesn't really believe in a purpose for us after life. And since so many people based their lives and beliefs around a higher being or calling, many who don't share that same asect in life they can kind of single each others opinions out making the other feel a little different about themselves, which is why I think this his why he choose to call this book the stranger in hopes of making some people realize that they think differently there not really different (if that makes any sense), I think he is trying to get people to see it from all aspects.
Sorry about the post being on the day of, once again without internet i already left you a comment on the extra credit questions of the stranger so if you would like to read it that would be great I explain my current situation in the post. So thanks for everything Mrs. Harl
I agree with Lauren's perspective on the physical world vs. higher power as it pertains to this novel. Mersault finds himself more concerned with material objects, rather than what he can gain from seeking help from a higher power. This just shows how Mersault percieves life to have no grand meaning and have no means for faith. As Mersault waits for his death in his cell, he occupies his mind with material objects, rather than the questioning of what's to happen next. This just shows his view on death and how he feels that nothing comes after it. I feel like Mersault is in desperate need of a higher power to help him through life, but unfortunately, he does not give that option a chance.
We've been talking about why Camus chose to title this novel The Stranger, and I was just thinking about it--maybe the title is also significant in that, none of the other characters (Maman, Raymond, Celeste) in the novel really understood Mersault. Even Marie, the woman he was supposed to marry, didn't really know him. So maybe the title stands for the way Mersault is a stranger to his friends, as well as the whole society. Does anyone else have any thoughts on that?
In response to question 4
I personally don't agree with Mersault's attitude toward life and death. I think the age at which you die makes a great deal of difference. The older you are, the less scary dying can be. I can, however, understand why he might have the opinion that he has.
I really like what Sarah said about Mersault being the stranger. He isn't really emotionally attached to anyone, and acts detached from the world. His friends didn't really know him, and he didn't seem to mind. It seemed as though an emotional attachment was to much for him to handle.
I thought it was interesting that during the whole novel, Mersault really doesn't seem worried about life or what comes after (as stated in the quote in question 4). He refuses to accept help from the chaplain and never feels the need to look towards a higher power. Yet, after going off on the priest, he says he feels happy. He then contradicts the way he's been living life by saying "I felt ready to live it all again".
What I still don't understand is why he wants people to be at his execution yelling "cries of hate." I guess it's because he has been this stanger to society all of his life and doesn't want people changing their view and feeling sorry for him (as he criticizes the crying women at Maman's funeral and stating that nobody had the right to cry for her).
I agree with Lauren about Mersault and how he never worries about anything.
I think why he was wanting people to yell "cries of hate" is because he finally was happy with his life the way it was and people did not like him. So he took it that there would be an angry mob at his execution and he would still be happy, just because he had come to and understanding with his life finally.
The statement of the chaplain toward Mersault regarding how once he's dead nothing remains is a pillar in the beliefs of existentialists. If one believed that there were no after life one wouldn't be confined to the moral laws of society. They could do anything they wanted that most people would feel guilty about. They could indulge in every humanly pleasure because they would not feel obligated to follow the moral codes of the rest of us.
But, on the other hand. If one had no beliefs of life after death and only believed in life of the present,they unlike most people would pursue to make the world better than it is now. Following their own moral codes, not to reach heaven but to better society in general. They might believe that since their is no heaven, we as society should try to fix our problems, to make a utopia you might say.The belief that since heaven doesn't exist we should try to make one of our own to the best of our ability. I think that this is a belief of Camus.
Something that stood out to me was when Mersault was wondering about Marie and why she hasn't written and begins thinking that maybe she has died. Mersault says, "After that, remembering Marie meant nothing to me. I wasn't interested in her dead." This is the woman he's going to marry and after he thinks she's dead he doesn't have any feelings left for her. I think that this shows how he is just living his life and going through the motions to pass time and get through it.
I agree with Ben's statement that while the result of believing there is no afterlife COULD be complete indulgence in immoral behavior, the result could also be an increased desire to make the current world a better place.
If I believed this world and this life was all I had, my instinctive reaction would be to try and make my short existence a meaningful and thoughtful one rather than indulge in bad, but indulgent, behaviors.
Sara said the thought of nothingness (in the afterlife?) makes human life seem insignificant. I actually think the idea of no afterlife would make the short life humans spend on earth seem even MORE significant. It would be the idea that "If this is all there is, I'd better make it good."
I'm reading and enjoying this discussion. I am still finding your discussion of the title's meaning interesting.
Also, Lauren I'm glad you brought up the last line of the novel. The end of a novel is always important to discuss. Remember that for Friday's timed writing!
I don't agree with Mersault's attitude toward death. I think when a person dies makes a difference, at least for that person. The person, if given several more decades to live, can experience more of the world. They can gain more knowledge and generally have more fun. I also think that one person can greatly impact the human race. If the person was given many more years to live, there is a chance, albeit a small one, that they would do or invent something in their extra time alive that would direct the course of human history in a new direction.
We may have already talked about this, but one question I have is, What was Camus' point in writing The Stranger? It's kind of a random story, and it wouldn't seem very significant on its own, so I'm curious what everyone thinks the significance of the novel is.
Sarah, that is a good question. I think that Albert Camus wrote The Stranger to bring the reader into introspect on their own relationships with society. Most of Meursault’s dialogue in the first part of the novel includes mostly facts that do not show any meaning. Because Camus does not provide the reader with Meursaults’s conscious, it allows the reader to make one for him. You become the mind of Meursault.
In the second part of the novel, Meursault becomes independently conscious, for example, his conversation with the Chaplain at the end of the novel. This lets the reader compare his or her ideas with those of Meursault and Camus. Both Existentialism and Religion are illustrated in The Stanger, and I think that Camus discusses both in order for the reader to see both aspect in order for them to choose for themselves. Any other ideas?
Sarah has raised a VERY important question for tomorrow's timed writing.
For all works of literature that we analyze, the most important question is "what was the author's point in writing it?" or as the College Board puts in on timed writing prompts, "what is the significance of the work as a whole."
I like that Rachel has offered her analysis. This is an important topic to get you all prepped for tomorrow.
I encourage others to respond to this question as well.
To answer question 5
I think if a person lives like there is no after life it can alter the way a person acts. If someone believes that there is no heaven then they would have no reasons for some morals. A lot of people feel as though heaven is something you work for and your actions on earth determine your afterlife. So if people didn't live for an afterlife there would be no need to follow the ten commandments or any other morals. They wouldn't need to think before they act because there wouldn't be the consequence of not going to heaven. I think everything would be different and so would people's attitudes.
I found online that the original name of the novel, in French, was L'Étranger. This was translated to The Stranger, but could also have been translated to "The Foreigner." I thought that was kind of interesting. Although he isn't necessarily a foreigner to the land, he is A metaphorical foreigner. hE has a very detached personality, so he is actually a foreigner to society. He is mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically (imprisoned) throughout the novel.
In response to Sarah's question, I think he may have written this book to give a perspective from a person outside of the "norm" in society. Generally, most people have some kind of religious beliefs, and those beliefs are reflected in a vast majority of novels and other outside sources. Portraying Mersault as an athiest, and Camus being one himself, gives the reader the opportunity to see things from a perspective not guided by religion. For example, most believers try to live their lifes expecting to move on to an afterlife, yet Mersault doesn't care about life and actually becomes happy when he realizes the insignificance of life. Mersault's actions allow the reader to think outside of his regular thoughts and views upon life.
I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that there were various reasons why Camus wrote The Stranger and that the novel is significant in various ways. Sparknotes seems to put a lot of stress on the theme of "the meaninglessness of human life" I think this is certainly applicable to the novel through Mersault's apathy, atheism, and amorality, but Camus seems to suggest something more. I think Mersault's eventual ability to find contentment and even a kind of freedom in a meaningless life is also an integral thematic element in the novel (this is only scarcely alluded to in the sparknotes). Although Mersault only finds this happiness at the end of the story (after his final encounter with the chaplain), I don't think it can be overlooked, seeing as how it completely altered his entire outlook on life.
On what Ashley said,
I think it's really interesting that the title can also translate to mean foreigner. It seems as though stranger and foreigner are both very fitting descriptions of him. He is basically a stranger to everyone around him, and he also sort of a foreigner to society.
In response to what Wes said about Mersault's change in attitude about life, the way I saw it was that it only changed because of his impending death. Throughout most of the novel, Mersault seems apathetic and believes life is pointless. I saw that the reason for this was because Mersault's pointless life was about to come to an end, so he was soon to quit wasting his time with it, which, to him, was comforting, in a way.
One thing that stood out to me was how I could relate to Mersault. I'm not at stoic as he is but I get what he means by his acceptance of the world around him. The biggest differene is that my acceptance comes from my faith and Mersault doesn't have faith. I pretty much take life as it comes at me, though.
Since I can't really think of any new input to add, I'd just like to say that I actually did kind of like this book. While there wasn't really any action, it was easy to read and comprehend. Mersault more-so represents the everyday person rather than Oedipus or Hamlet, which can provide a closer connection with the reader, as Coleigh stated. Also, as I said before, it was kind of interesting to see life from the perspective from someone who views things pretty differently than I do.
In response to question 5...
Mersault's atheism is an important theme throughout the book. He doesn't believe in anything and because of that he just kind of rolls through life. He doesn't fear life or death because he is indifferent to everything. It also has a huge effect on the choices he makes. If he did have a more typical set of morals and beliefs, perhaps he wouldn't have shot the man on the beach or had the affair. His belief system, or lack thereof, is vital to understanding the novel.
In response to Tyler's response to my comment, I think it is possible and reasonable that Mersault changed his outlook only because of his imminent death. However, I also think it's possible that if he had the same mentality earlier in life, he might have been more content with his own existence. I also thought there was a point (when he was awaiting his execution) in which he wished that he had more time to live, but I could be wrong.
Anyway, if he was comforted only by the notion that his meaningless life was going to end, why didn't he commit suicide before his execution or even before his trial? He clearly wouldn't be impeded by his morals (as they don't exist).
The title, The Stranger, is significant because it describes the main character Meursault. He is a stranger to society because he does not follow its rules. The usage of the word "stranger" means something closer to "one who is strange" than the usual "one who is unknown" in this case.
The trial is absurd in that the judge, prosecutors, lawyers and jury try to find meaning where none is to be found.All the evidence has nothinkg to do with the crime, but solely on the character of the defendant. The prosecuter even compares Mersualt to his next trial, the paricide, when his case isn't even close to Mersault's. Everyone, except Meursault, has there own ‘reason' why Meursault shot the Arab but none of them are, or can be, correct.The real reason he shot the arab was because he wanted to stand in the shade, but the others don't seem to care about the definitive facts. In life there are never shortages of opinion as to why this or that thing occurred.
I agree with what Ben said the title of the book means. It means that he doesn't follow societys rules and morals, so he is a stranger to them. It is a very thoughtprovoking title because it could almost describe the main character as a whole.
When Ashley talked about prison, I thinkshe is right when she said that time begins to not matter at all. He just would sit in his cell for an unkown amount of time and think about his favorite memories. He never mentions time.
I agree with Ben when he says that the trial is absurd. It was very aggravating to me reading the chapters about his trial, because the only evidence they had against him was the dead Arab and Maman's death. It just wasn't a very in depth trial.
I also thought it was interesting how Mersault looked through all of the absurdities throughout the novel in the final chapter. I also thought it was interesting how he almost found a inner freedom through those.
About the trial, I agree with Ashley. It seems to me that the book does not discuss the trial as in depth as it could. While the dead arab is very good evidence, it seems to me that the death of maman is discussed more in depth. It just seems like the trial isn't very organized and it is frustrating.
The title The Stranger fits this novel well. Throughout the novel Mersault seems to not only struggle with himself and have trouble identifying with himself, but with the public as well. He doesn't connect with anyone and therefore he becomes a stranger to himself as well as everyone else. No one really knows who he is. It can be argued that he doesn't even know who he truly is.
Also, I agree that in prison days might seem to run together. There really is no way to keep track of time. Especially if you are serving a long sentence. Prison is known to be a miserable existence and I doubt that you would want to face the reality of how long you had been enduring such unhappiness.
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